Poetry News For July 10, 2008
Poetry News:
- — Memorial for Idaho poet, kayaker Studebaker to be Saturday in Twin Falls —
- — Poets, Fiddlers and Leaving Seattle —
- — Exene Cervenka: Fom X To Missouri —
- — Tuesday’s Poem: “Old Timers’ Day” by Donald Hall from White Apples and the Taste of Stone [mp3] —
- — What Am I Doing Wrong With This Poem? —
- — Milarepa picked for 22nd Napa Sonoma Film Festival 2008 —
- — August Kleinzahler’s ugly gifts —
- — What makes Shapiro so important to American poetry right now is the success with which he’s taken over the territory of fiction writers —
*************
*************
I must have been living in an alternate reality or am utterly clueless or oblivious because this confused the heck out of me:
20 or 30 years?? What??
Has that really been your experience? Daaang! Personally, the only time I ever have had the adult moniker “girl” is with some of my mostly-African-American-coworkers at the HCBU I work at — and I have the feeling that the Gurlesque “girl” and the HCBU “girl” are not equivalent.
What do you think?
Why do most American women have the moniker “girl” ’til maybe age 30 nowadays? (?) Is that something they are self-identifying with? Or is it a generational thing that I am oblivious to? The comment that I linked to says that society is doing it to women. Powerfully.
Do you think you are a “girl?” Do others call you “girl”? How old are you? Where do you live? Help I’m confused.
– signed, 40-year-old woman
If you've enjoyed this blog, how about buying me a cup of coffee?
Once again, you and I are on the same page, Jilly. I have been called girl many many times, including often in the past year — I’m 47), but when called girl, I immediately correct the person.
Q. Why do most American women have the moniker “girl” ’til maybe age 30 nowadays? (?)
A. Sexism
Q. Is that something they are self-identifying with?
A. Many, yes. Especially those under 40. This has been a heated topic of discussion among women poets in the last two months; and I am in the minority in not only preferring, but demanding that I be called a woman. We do not call men boys. In my eyes, any man 18 and older is a man, and any woman 18 and older is a woman. Some women claim they are “reclaiming” the word “girl” and “subverting” it (For whom? I say: utter bullshit), and embracing their childhoods. Bust Magazine has been a strong influence on this trend (and others in the same vein) among “third wave feminists.”
Q. Or is it a generational thing that I am oblivious to?
A. Yes, see above answer. And many women over 40 have become so accustomed to it, they are desensitized to it.
>>The comment that I linked to says that society is doing it to women. Powerfully.
Response: A culture of sexism in the US views women as girls, as children, immature, silly, frivolous, weak, incapable of making their own decisions, etc. But a majority of women are complicity in this by allowing themselves to be called girls and viewed as girls.
For my take on the “Gurlesque,” see my blog:
http://smallmexicanchihuahua.blogspot.com/2008/07/attack-of-burlesgrrlerotesque-luchabots.html
I am 38 and work as a secretary for a police agency. My two clerical co-workers and I are often referred to as “the girls.” It bugged me for awhile, but now, whatever. It goes with the ridiculous outpouring of flowers and platitudes on Secretaries Day.
The female officers, by the way, are definitely not “the girls.”
Well, if you’re gay, you’re a boy until your teeth fall out apparently.
I have a feeling we’re going to see more votes and comments by Obama that are centrist (i.e. playing to the right) as we head toward November. I don’t like it, but it’s the way elections are won.
Defending the Girls?
Hmm, I use the term “Guys” rather indiscrimately these days to address a group of people of both sexes, which seems to be the equivalent to “girl,” just a casual way to refer to people without saying “Ladies and Gentlemen” or some other weirdly old-fashioned phrase.
However, the term “girl” does creep into my poetry a lot. I would probably rather be referred to as a girl than a woman or a lady, or the dreaded “ma’am,” at (gulp!) 35. Girl just sounds better to me, I’m not reading sexism into it. “Women and Men” sounds very clinical, like I’m reading a medical brochure. Plus, you know, it does have a kind of subversive feminist thing going on, Tank Girl, Final Girl, etc etc.
Good discussion. I’ve heard several perspectives. Context matters, and the speaker. And the audience.